Mandi:
Would you rather see Edward and Bella getting dirty, or when the deed is done and the lights turn back on you only see the feathers strewn about after Edward rips open his pillow because he can’t contain his hornieness? Of course, I’m not sure I really want to see Edward naked, so let’s move onto actual romance books.
I recently read and loved Heartbreak Creek by Kaki Warner. Set in 1870, the heroine finds her only option in life is to become a mail order bride for a man out west. Kaki Warner does an amazing job building up the sexual tension between these two strangers, as they come to know each other and eventually fall in love. But similar to her other work, right about the time when the much anticipated sex scene is to come, you turn the page and the scene has been skipped. The sex scene as people refer to it, has faded to black. No peeking into the bedroom for the reader.
I have mixed thoughts on no sex in romance books. Let’s face it – I read romance for a reason. Oh, I love a good plot and some humor. But part of a romance book is the exploration of the physical relationship of the protagonists. Heartbreak Creek is so well written, honestly – I didn’t miss the sex…that much. (okay, maybe I missed it a lot) But there have been times where I’ve been disappointed and I think a lack of a sex scene has negatively reflected upon the book. In River Marked by Patricia Briggs, Mercy and Adam remove themselves from the pack to go on their honeymoon. Imagine my excitement when I realized we get to read an entire book with basically just Adam and Mercy celebrating their wedding. And before you start frowning, I realize this is an urban fantasy series, not romance but Patricia Briggs has included romance scenes in previous books. But not River Marked. Not the book where a sex scene would actually make sense! Who doesn’t want to read about Adam without clothes on? Hello!
Bottom line for me is that if I am reading a romance book, or an urban fantasy book that has a strong sexual tension and an obvious hero/heroine, I want the sex payoff. Give me the danglies and the naughty bits.
I’ve talked about this topic before with my Smexy review partner May, and I know her opinion differs a little from mine so I asked her for her thoughts on this topic.
May:
I enjoy books that fade to black or otherwise limit the on-page sex in a book. I find them refreshing. I appreciate that doing this forces the author to show us romance outside the bedroom. So often I find authors rely too heavily on the sex scenes, that if they are removed there would be very little proof of true love and happily ever after, of affection and falling in love in the story. It grates on my nerves when I read a story where it’s clear more thought and detail was put into the sex scene than the rest of the book. Often I also find myself wanting to skim and feeling that the page space could have better been used by something interesting or original. When I can’t get a good picture of a heroine in my mind’s eye but I could pick out her boobs from a line-up I know the author has done a really poor job of balancing where the details are.
My other common complaint is frequent sex scenes that eat up the page count and leave less room for story development and a more complex plot. Of course most of my favorite novels do have sex and are not fade to black, and there are certainly times when a sex scene is able to convey so much more than the act itself. Feelings are running high, emotions shared with me the reader. I will add that there are times where a sex scene would add to a story – I’m certainly not against them!
At the end of the day I want a satisfying love story from my romance novels, and a skilled author leading me through the story – with our without on-page sex.
Must you have sex scenes or does it depend on the book? Are you more in favor of fade to black? Is there a book you liked that would have been better with sex or with less sex?
Oh my! Love this topic! For me, it depends on the book/author. There are some authors I look forward to long smexy scenes, others I wish they would tighten up the looonng descriptions a bit…seriously, how many pages can you read about “her silky wet folds” LOL!
I’ve read many books where it’s fade to black and I’m good with that when the story is intriguing. Although I adore romance, I admit that there are quite a few books I fast forward on the certain scenes. But, there are a few I re-read the scene over and over!;)
And FYI – I know I don’t want to see Edward naked!
Sometimes in an erotic book, if it is missing that emotional connection – and just sex scene after sex scene – yeah – I skim. I want that build up where I can’t wait to read about them naked. (I sound so pervy!)
I remember reading the first Julie James book – and there wasn’t sex and I was so disappointed because the sexual tension and banter was so good. I need it! (Unless it is UF….where I need strong tension..and a sex payoff a few books in)
I LOVE the build up! So I must be pervy too!
silky wet folds… bahaha. yeah.. enough of that already!!
“Give me the danglies and the naughty bits.”
I am with Mandi on this one. I read Romance for a reason and nothing irritates me more than fade to black. I want the payoff, it’s the main reason I don’t typically read YA. I want the money scene! :P
This is true too…I don’t read a lot of YA for that reason. I read The Hunger Games recently but I didn’t read it for the romance aspect. And actually it worked for me because the romance isn’t prominent.
I can enjoy a fade to black in a romance but in the right place…I get frustrated at the fade to black in UF though but..I know there is a time and place in UF. Anyway…off track. I don’t mind them but I don’t like a romance without a good sensual scene…a nice mix of the two is perfect.
In UF – I don’t mind a few books of no sex as long as there is sexual tension – but I then need the sex scene (Like Kate and Curran for example). Don’t build me up just to skip over the good part ;)
I hate fade-to-black sex scenes with the fiery passion of a thousand suns. It’s one of those things that can really ruin a book for me.
So how do you really feel? LOL. I get disappointed…but like I said – Kaki Warner’s books are so damn good…I would never not read her books because she doesn’t write a sex scene. But damn…I would like to see some cowboy nookie.
I want the peen in action!!! No blackouts!!! Show me the package!
Seriously, I was pissed when they re-marketed Jessica Bird’s books due to her alter J.R. Ward being so popular and you know I am a total Ward fan but when I read An Unforgettable Lady with the fade to black sex scenes I wanted to set the book on fire! That is sooooo not the Ward we know! If I’m reading romance of any kind, I want the follow through otherwise there is no point IMO!
Oh wow – I had no idea Jessica Bird had fade to black sex scenes!! That is crazy. Was she just bursting to get those sex scenes out in Wrath’s book then? LOL. Thank goodness for the BDB!
I realize initial publication was 2004 for AUL but damnnnnn! A fade to black in the year 2000! Not cool and then to re-release under Ward’s name. That does nothing but a disservice to her current writing style as Ward IMO.
I’m def on “Team dangling bits”. I don’t see the point of reading an adult romance book without the smutty sex scenes. ALL of the books in my tbr piles consists of smex. The smuttier the better! Now, I have read books with the fade to black, and very few of them have satisfied me enough that I would seek to read more from that author. But that list is VERY short (maybe 1 or 2 authors). I don’t fault you if you don’t like to read about the smex, but for me, I would much rather read every smutty explicit detail and act involved.
Do you find the “smuttier the better” books though to have a thinner plot? I want the sex scenes, but sometimes there are too many.
It is why I feel I’m so picky about erotic books. I don’t want the chemistry or plot to be pushed to the side for more sex. At least that is how I feel :)
I know what you mean. Some of them do have a thinner plot. And not all smex is good smex. I’m a tiny bit picky, but not much. Sometimes I want to read the straight up smut. Sometimes I want a little plot, some emotional connection, some sensual, some sexual tension that ultimately lead to the smex. The first question I ask about a book rec is ‘is it smexy’. If it’s not, then I tend to by-pass it. There has to be at least some smex in it for me to want to read it. And it doesn’t have to be multiple scenes. If there is just one good smex scene in the whole book, I’ll read it. But it HAS to be there, laid out in all it’s smutty detailed glory. :)
True – I need to mix it up a little..I couldn’t read straight erotica for days. And I agree- if it has that one good smexy scene in there…*grins* I’m usually a happy Smexy. ;)
I love that you know exactly what you want in a book!
Oooh, i hate the fade to black. I like sex scenes in my romance! I agree with Mandi that it is not just the voyeuristic sense of reading about hot sex (although there is that). It is can also be such a great way for the author to convey the emotion between the characters and have them learn more about each other.
It is funny, I just blogged about a similar topic last week regarding my dislike of imaginary (fantasy/dream) sex scenes. It is the same idea with fade to black, I just feel like you are missing such a key part of their relationship to have it all happen off page. To be honest, I usually won’t buy romance with no sex in it.
You wrote a great piece – http://joyfullyjay.blogspot.com/2011/09/imaginary-sex.html
I totally agree about dream sex. No dream sex for me.
When I started reading Kaki Warner – I had no idea it was fade to black. If I had known prior, I probably wouldn’t have bought them. (but so glad I did!)
Thanks Mandi, glad you liked it!
Thanks for the link. I checked out the post and really liked it. :)
“I want the sex payoff.”
Yes! I’m glad you put that out there because I totally agree. Call me a perv or whatever, but if I’m reading a romance novel… it’s not hard to guess at the reason. It’s not at I want the sex scene to abate some internal sexual desire, if that was the case, I’d watch porn or something, (which I do do. I swear!). It’s that I want what Mandi described, to see how that sexual tension will manifest when things finally get physical.
And it doesn’t have to be all vanilla or the extreme opposite. Why not have some mishaps happen, like, “Please tell me that was a queef.” *snorts*
Joking aside, it doesn’t have to be the perfect first time. Just a natural coming together that’s as unstoppable as the tension build up was.
You kill me – please tell me that was a queef. *dies*
Well, once we get a sex scene I totally agree – it doesn’t have to be the perfect- omg I just had 3 orgasms and I was a virgin! Realistic..but still sexy.
I don’t know how authors write chemistry between h/h – but a book is so awesome when the characters have it
Checked in on this blog because this is always a dilemma for me. I write YA Paranormal Romance, maybe that makes a difference, but then that’s where “Edward” lives and NOBODY wants to see him naked. Frankly, I’m not so sure I wouldn’t have wanted to see Ms. Meyers Edward naked, it’s Pattinson naked that I object to.
Personally, I think there is a big difference between writing a sensual scene and fading to black; as opposed to a sexual scene. Give me the sensual any time. No matter the genre.
LOL- yes – Pattinson naked…meh..I’ll pass. ;)
Sticking with my example of Kaki Warner – I think she writes sensual scenes. It is a very romantic book. It is just when it comes down to the actual act – the door closes. If she didn’t even have the sensual stuff in – yeah, I might not continue. So I agree with you there.
It’s interesting reading these comments. I would rather have a great story vs detailed sex. I will pick that EVERY time if it’s “either/or”. For me reading a romance novel is about the story, sex is a part of that… I don’t read to get to the sex parts.
[probably explains why I avoid erotica!]
I need both. A great story and detailed sex. If it’s either/or…well, thankfully I don’t have to choose. I tend to avoid sweet romance even though I find it more satisfying than poorly written erotica.
True – I’d much rather read something sweet and sexless than a poor erotica.
I think it depends. For example, in Darynda Jones’s SECOND GRAVE ON THE LEFT, the sexual tension between Reyes and Charley is so delicious that I didn’t mind the absence of a sex scene. But I have to agree with Mandi, that RIVER MARKED had me a little dissapointed on the sex scene side. I absolutely loved the book and the story, but it would have been even better with a little “on screen” action between Adam and Mercy.
With the Mercy series, I’m totally find if we don’t get a sex scene in every book – but the fact that she has given us a couple, and none on their honeymoon? *sobbing* SO unfair ;)
I love sexual tension though too…and especially in UF, that is my favorite part – watching that tension develop over the first few books in a series.
I need to read the Jones books! I just got them..I know Tori loves them
This is a great topic for discussion! I’ve thought about it quite a bit, and I do think it depends on the book. As a rule though, I almost never appreciate the door being closed.
It makes me feel like a voyeur. I know that sounds weird, but let me explain. I’m involved in these characters lives and if I’m reading to the end I’m invested in them. I want them to succeed and for great things to happen to them. If the book is specifically a romance, I want them to end up together. I’ve followed their lives on this trip and then just when things get really personal, a barrier comes up and reminds me that someone thinks this is naughty enough to lock me out. Now I feel dirty. That’s a bit of an exaggeration of course, but there is a sense of “I’m not showing you this because that would be wrong” to it that I just can’t shake.
The other reason I dislike closed doors is because I think our society has become far too sex shy. It’s okay to show dead bodies on television, but let’s not show any boobs, even by accident. That would be wrong. In my opinion, if you’re going to show me the ugly side of humanity, you’d better show me the beautiful side too.
I also agree with something Lizzie mentioned above. The descriptions can go on forever and I don’t appreciate constant repetition of phrases or images. Change it up. Sometimes a quick scene where the intense emotions are emphasized. Sometimes the lazy, early-morning romp under the covers. It doesn’t always have to be full-color with every thrust detailed.
If the book is specifically a romance, I want them to end up together. I’ve followed their lives on this trip and then just when things get really personal, a barrier comes up and reminds me that someone thinks this is naughty enough to lock me out.
I totally agree with this. If I can read about every emotion, every thought and feeling throughout the whole story, why is this the one area where we don’t get any information on what is really going on. What are they talking about? What are they feeling?
Coral…I love your thoughts!!
I’ve followed their lives on this trip and then just when things get really personal, a barrier comes up and reminds me that someone thinks this is naughty enough to lock me out. Now I feel dirty.
I’ve never thought about it like this…but this is so true! If are invested in these characters and their most intimate thoughts, why close the door?
The other reason I dislike closed doors is because I think our society has become far too sex shy. It’s okay to show dead bodies on television, but let’s not show any boobs, even by accident.
Yes yes yes. I’ve always had a problem with violence allowed on tv but not sex. Or in books too.
Give me smexytime or give me death! I don’t think the author needs to go all Ellora’s Cave and all but as a reader I’m really invested in everything the characters are doing. So, when an author decides to fade a sex scene I feel a little cut off. I read Kaki Warner’s Pieces of Sky and I felt she didn’t use the fade to black as much as her other bks. It made sense especially since the main chica had been abused and as a reader you wanted to sed how she would overcome her fear of being intimate.
I get that in UF I’m not always going to get a sex scene but if there is a build up like KMM’s Barons and Mac you bet your bootie I want to read about their naughty bits getting naughty.
OMG – can you imagine if we hadn’t had a Barrons/Mac sex scene? I might have to go reread that one just for old times sake ;)
I think some of Warner’s books work better without sex – but her latest..I wanted a little booty action.
I actually like detailed sex from a UF type book where there’s a focus on detail and fights and you’re right in there in the action. Does that make sense? It just fits for me if we’re getting super into the nitty gritty… well extend that into the smexy time!
That makes sense – I think the fighting, violent story line has a natural progression to gritty sexy time. I like that about UF’s.
Even though I was dying for a non-priya sex scene in Fever – we had a nice payoff ;)
Wait a second. Barrons and Mac-they are from the Fever books, right? Are you saying there’s no sex in that series either? Really?
None?
there is barrons/mac payoff.
*shiver*
totally worth wait + built up just right. ;-)
I think it depends on the book, and on the book’s tone. I haven’t read Heartbreak Creek but I read Warner’s previous books and the sex scenes weren’t explicit but they weren’t fade-to-black either… I found that the sensuality level in those books suited the overall tone and feel of the stories, which is exactly what I’m looking for.
I do love sex scenes though, and sometimes I feel disappointed when a book is a bit lacking in that department specially if there’s great chemistry between the characters and lots of sexual tension. But the sex scenes need to be necessary to the plot, I agree with May, sometimes authors depend too much on sex scenes that don’t really move the plot forward or serve any purpose whatsoever. I love reading books like Broken by Megan Hart, which have tons of sex scenes, very hot sec scenes, but also very meaningful ones. So I guess is a matter of balance, of what the plot needs, what the characters need, and what the sex scenes are trying to convey.
I don’t want to see Edward’s cold and hard as granite sparkly penis either ;-D!
sparkle peen.
[dies laughing]
I think it depends on the romance book and the sex. I totally agree with the following a characters journey or relationship. like Barrons/Mac or even Merit/Ethan.
I do think the payoff is more in the UF -Terrible.
But if there is tension in the book I can fine with out a sex scene for bit.
Great topic
Yep – I need that tension too!
I understand why certain authors would choose to fade to black, but as a reader, I hate it! I always feel cheated, because I think a lot can be shown about a character during a love scene.
Yesssss…totally agree!
I’m with the majority here-if I’m reading a romance and I’ve become invested in the characters, usually having fallen in love with them for the duration of the book myself, I want the big payoff. It doesn’t have to be pages long and I don’t need explicit descriptions of the shape and size of anyone’s private parts-but I NEED that scene. Fade to black sex just annoys me, especially if the author writes the sexual tension or builds up the relationship well. I have NOT read future books by an author who uses this mode. I could be missing out on great stories, I know, but that is how I feel.
I think it’s one of the reasons I’ve avoided UF. I know I’m missing out on really great stories in that genre, but the lack of the payoff when all the tension has been present throughout, well, I guess I don’t want to invest the time.
I agree with Coral! You’ve said it perfectly!
But – if you are willing to wait a few books, many of the UF series do have sex. It is just not in book one. (sometimes it is). But a lot of my favorite UF series does have that great build up with the sex later on. It works for me
I don’t really care for most sex scenes. After the first two or three, I know it already, and often skip the rest of them, to get on with the story itself. So I am perfectly fine with fading to black, or just a short mention or such.
Still re-read my Barbara Cartlands and Georgette Heyer books ;) and those are true romances. I often think the hero and heroine dive into the bed way too soon.
I do like Heyer :) And yes, many times the “instant love” or diving into bed right away annoys me
I can be such a prude when it comes to HR sometimes, and i have found that it is always with the sweet books because then i always think, what the heck? That is not how good girls behaved.
But yes with lots of other things I do not need those long sex scenes either. I want a story, not just sex, cos there is always erotica
Sex with no story is no good. I agree!
I have to have a sex scene payoff if there is sexual tension. The Mercy Thompson books?? I stopped reading after Ms. Briggs didn’t give the readers a more vivid sex scene. The issue seemed skirted over, a fact that I didn’t enjoy after all of the buildup from previous books.
Twilight series?? I literally shouted “Is that it?!?!” when I got to the feathers-in-bed part.
If an author spends a significant amount of time courting two characters towards an intimate relationship, I want to read all the dirty details when the moment finally happens, darn it.
Stacia Kane did an excellent job doing this with Terrible and Chess. Karen Marie Moning redeemed herself from the Priya-sex fiasco by giving her readers a more satisfying encounter in Shadowfever.
To me, if an author doesn’t deliver when that’s what they’ve spent several books building towards, they’ve lost me as a reader.
Oh. And I wanted to clarify that I understand the Twilight series is YA. But Stephanie Meyers could have done so much more than what she did instead of giving us a vampire baby. I wanted to know the details of how that vampire baby was conceived, considering her father has been dead for nearly a century. The mysteries of diamond-dust coated vampires.
Totally agree. I have to read Mercy – but yeah..even the sex scenes she gives us are…a little flat. And gah – how awesome is Adam? LOL
KMM definitely redeemed the sex in the final book. Thank goodness! And yes..I love how Kane presented the Terrible/Chess romance. She kept it dark and gritty, just like the world. Loves so hard.
Breaking Dawn is just a mess of a book in general. I mean…it is BAD. Blah. (Still totally seeing the movie) LOL
I think there is a big difference between “build-up” and “full blown” scenes. I love the build-up scenes, I can read those all through the book, but once they’ve done the “down & dirty”, I don’t need twenty more long scenes saying/doing the same thing. One good down & dirty works for me!
It’s tricky with the build up. I LOVE build up. But sometimes it goes on for too long (Like in Kiss of Snow by Singh – I think Hawke and Sienna needed to do the deed earlier!)
But yes, once they have sex, I don’t need 10 more scenes of the same thing. But if you want to put some variety like maybe move it to the shower *ahem* or a wall *cough cough* I’m okay with that. ;)
I haven’t read Kiss of Snow yet :(
But I agree, showers & walls are always welcome ;)
Oh yes! Let’s move it to the wall!!!
It depends on what the lead up to is. If they are getting really hot and heavy and everything is shared expect the actual deed, I get frustrated. If your going to take the time to write about the foreplay and really give details then share it all or leave it out.
Good point
“Give me the danglies and the naughty bits.”
Amen.
As a rule in books I do not like fade to black. But in movies, I can do without seething the sex. They can shut the door, I’m ok with it. LOL.
Not even a little peek at the nekkid man butt? ;)
I really really dislike fade to black romance or urban fantasy books. I’m an adult, part of the experience of reading a romance is the sex. It’s almost a payoff. I think I’m old enough to handle it lol.
LOL..yes – I think we can handle it just fine! ;)
I’ve actually gone back to a lot of traditional regencies just because I’ve gotten tired of the repetitive sex scenes. There are only a handful of sex scenes that I think are really well-written, and I usually skip the other 90% because they don’t add that much to the story and they tend to all blend together. If the author has done a really good job at developing the sexual tension, however, I would be more interested in reading the sex scenes, but now that I’ve read so much romance most of them fall flat for me. I can really do without the sex scenes unless they are in the hands of a really skillful author and/or they are really out of the ordinary.
This is my current pet peeve. I read sweet regencies, erotica and everything in between and for the most part. For the “everything in between” stuff, it’s gotten to the point I feel like it’s too much, too often, and too detailed. Even with authors I like, I’ve been skipping the sex scenes lately. I’m a huge rereader and the more sex in a book means I’m less likely to reread it and in my view, why bother buying the book if I’m not going to reread it. Similarly I’m less likely to read a UF that has a bunch of sex scenes; I’d read a paranormal romance instead if I wanted sex. So I’m with Rosie on this.
When Rosie says – If the author has done a really good job at developing the sexual tension, however, I would be more interested in reading the sex scenes, but now that I’ve read so much romance most of them fall flat for me
I totally agree…there has to be a reason for us to want to read the sex.
alh – interesting view on the UF! I get frustrated if there is no sex in UF after a few books.
So you are saying you think there is more sex in books right now? And it isn’t that great? I read a lot. And when there is a sex scene well written, it definitely stands out because, yeah – a lot of the scenes are same old same old.
*sits on the fence*
It depends :) Sometimes I’m kicking and screaming when there is a fade to black, but…Mandi, I’m with you, I don’t really want to see Edward naked *grin* But I agree with May that sometimes the sex scenes limit the emotional development of the characters. I guess I want my cake and the chance to eat it too – I want both!
And now I’ll go and read the coments :)
LOL..I guess it really depends on the book, huh? And no…no nekkid Edward. Please.
It really depends on the book.
That fade to black in Breaking Dawn is still a thorn in my side. Yeah it’s YA, but if you can put that “child birth” scene in there surely something more than a simple fade to black wouldn’t have done any harm? Especially after all the fuss on the matter in Eclipse.
So yeah, if the book has a romantic subplot or is an all out romance novel, there is sexual tension on every other page than having every sex scene end with a fade to black after one kiss to me it will feel like something’s missing.
That said there is such a thing as too much sex in a romance novel and I find myself wishing for a fade to black so the plot can progress forward.
So either cut all the references about the couple having sex or give us one or two scenes where there’s no fade to black. It doesn’t have to be explicit, but it should be there.
Breaking Dawn is a mess of a book on so many levels!!!
And yes – I want the sex scenes, but not 20. And not repetitive, or ones that aren’t done well.
Yes, I’m picky :)